Monday, September 28, 2009

Time to get excited about JFK


Collin said...

IDK if I really agree with that article... Races are worth whatever people are willing to pay for them. $135 is really not that bad for a 50 mile race, considering that most marathons are around $100 now. What they do with the money is their choice and $45,500 is by no means a very good salary.... People seem to think that races overcharging are "ripping them off", but it's simple economics. If people will pay that much, you should charge that much. There was actually a good article about this in the Running Times issue I just got a few days ago. They made the argument that if anyone else had a product that they sold at a low enough price that it sold out within minutes as lots of 50s and 100s do at this point, that employee would be fired instantly for losing the company so much money. This isn't exactly the same, but the logic still makes sense as far as I'm concerned.

alyssa said...

Collin is a capitalist....shocker.

I think you just missed the point of the article. Spinnler made 45K before almost doubling the price of the race. So now he makes prob 80K-90K on a race that runs itself. Genius? Perhaps. Worth all the bad karma? Prob not.

Arjun Majumdar said...

So how does this article get one excited for JFK? I clicked on the link expecting a riveting article about the race and its challenges or perhaps profiles of this years participants. I found neither. Then I remembered Ben was doing this race and was instantly rejuvenated as only the ass man can. Ben - don't think about using that as your tag line I already have it trademarked.

Collin, I agree that race should be able to charge whatever people are willing to spend and if you compare it to any ING race the race entry is pretty standard. However, because the CVAC registers as an NPO they have certain obligations. The most fundamental of which is that they can not use their budget surplus to pad their pockets. They must pay reasonable salaries and it is my understanding that usually an board of d's determines that. $45,500 for 30 hours a week as a race director of two maybe three races seems a bit excessive in the first place.

Side note. Ryan, I found you a job as a Race Director. I think it pays more than $45,500 a year and I hear the race runs itself!

RM said...

Collin, you just got fucking ROASTED by Arjun, who is already the color of roasted almonds, and smells twice as delicious.

I paid $255 for Eagleman 2010. It was $240 last year. Am I getting $15 more of anything?

In 2001 I paid $75 for Columbia Triathlon. The other day I paid $130 for Columbia 2010. It's the same shitty race on the same shitty weekend with the same terrible food afterwards. They've upped the pro dollars - but amateurs can't see a penny of that. I'm sorry but I don't give a fuck if Chris McCormack comes and rides barely more than a minute faster than me so he can get a few grand to show up and a few grand to get 3rd overall. It's just not right.

Ben said...

I'm not sure what I think about this. If all he does is manage this race then that would be a pretty rediculous salary. And the reason races become this popular is usually related to reputation that gets built up over years - so, basically this guy is cashing in on the work of others.

But, it could be that although the money comes from JFK that he does other non-JFK work during the year to earn his salary. The price is high - but, several of us are willing to pay. Are you guys a bunch of commies?!

Instead of complaining - maybe we should start organizing races to fill the void?

RM said...

The problem with organizing races is the time it takes. And then you can't race them.

Robert Vigorito is in charge of Columbia Triathlon Association. They put on a few races each year, charge a shitload and he makes boatloads of dollars.

Think about how much Mary Wittenberg makes as CEO of NYRR.

If you're going to be able to carve any sort of living you have to put on big races, good races, get most of your shit paid for - it's tough work.

I'm still in the world of Ivan Drago, that is to say "I race to win for me...FOR ME!"

Ben said...

so, ryan you are saying that organizing races is a lot of work and they make a lot of money. and that's a problem because . . .
The argument seems to be - "nobody used to want to participate in races and so they were cheap - and I liked that. now they're popular and expensive. that sucks."

Collin said...

I wouldn't say I got "roasted". The average truck driver makes $45k/year, same as that guy. Making $45k is not exactly a violation of being non-profit. They probably shouldn't be non-profit to begin with, but it's stupid for people to complain about the price when they're still going to pay it. Also, Ryan, keep in mind that permit prices are increasing on a yearly basis. I know the guy who runs the Arrowhead race in MN and he told me that because the cost of his permit increased so drastically this year, he had to double the entry fee just to break even. Also, JFK going up in cost doesn't necessarily mean the director is going to make more money. If you think it costs too much, then don't run it, it's really simple.

RM said...

1) You got roasted, just accept it

2) In this case, the JFK cost going up DOES mean the director is making more money

3) I understand the points about "if it's too expensive don't run" but fuck that noise, people just want to compete in good races. Cut down on the number of shitty races and get better sponsors and offset more of the cost. Sellout pieces of shit. I hate racing but because it's in my blood I have to. I have nothing else in my life. Nothing.

4) You don't have to tell me about permits going up, that's why we can't have Bay Cafe anymore. However, we turned lemons into iced tea and put on a low key 5k that was faster than most road races were this year. When you're a boss you can do that.