tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7465956249798874262.post1939715188546609419..comments2023-10-17T05:08:54.903-04:00Comments on That's What She Said: SuffrageRMhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01079220291482067777noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7465956249798874262.post-46529776117125829122011-10-03T12:44:06.215-04:002011-10-03T12:44:06.215-04:00Does being paced by a retard count? It lasted mayb...Does being paced by a retard count? It lasted maybe 1/3 mile, but Remus found a way to get out first at the Boston Marathon one year. <br /><br />I just hope "sex appeal" and his fake Olympic rings never again wears a thong and arm warmers that match neon green spikes in 90 deg weather.Darthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04878042640028775337noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7465956249798874262.post-89044734426220594372011-09-30T14:34:29.846-04:002011-09-30T14:34:29.846-04:00Ben - I didn't say that I was for rabbits on t...Ben - I didn't say that I was for rabbits on the track. <br /><br />In fact, it's only obviously 800m and up that you see rabbits. In the sprints you just run as hard as you can. I never have understood why an 800m race needs a rabbit. Mile, 2 mile, 5k, you seem them a lot. I feel like you don't see 10k's run all that frequently so I don't really remember a lot of rabbited races, just slow ones. And steeple - fuhgeddaboutit.RMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01079220291482067777noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7465956249798874262.post-77072240525148003722011-09-30T08:28:15.307-04:002011-09-30T08:28:15.307-04:00arjun and i have spent plenty of time arguing this...arjun and i have spent plenty of time arguing this one. unless you're going to allow men pacers in women's races on the track, i think this is the right call. personally, i'd be ok with declaring all world records to be from time trials only, but obviously that's not going to be as fast times. on the other hand, i think it's ridiculous to sit on someone an entire race too. obviously nobody is going to argue that retroactively stripping PR and DK's records sucks, but at least they decided to draw a definitive line somewhere. <br /><br />still, whether or not it's labeled a "world record", everyone knows that a 2:15 is the fastest time run, and that time isn't going to be forgotten because it's got a different name. no woman is going to go into a race thinking she'll run fast but not a WR, so i can't see anyone running a race and being surprised to have a would-be WR but not have it count. if a woman wants to run a world's best and needs men pacers, go for it. if she wants the title of world record holder, she knows the conditions it has to meet.cheesehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01592460497108072747noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7465956249798874262.post-15494434683926362342011-09-29T20:11:05.206-04:002011-09-29T20:11:05.206-04:00Ryan - "teammates" might not pace each o...Ryan - "teammates" might not pace each other in track - but there are still paid pacers in track races. How is that different than paid pacers in road races?Benhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13889522815625481107noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7465956249798874262.post-6642687165570231972011-09-29T14:49:01.845-04:002011-09-29T14:49:01.845-04:00Swimming's issue become more of a question of ...Swimming's issue become more of a question of technology vs man, though. In running, you have your shoes, and that's it. You can run barefoot if you want. In swimming, you can build a faster pool - the depth, volume, temperature, construction of the lane lines - it all factors into the time, and since these events are essentially the equivalent of track races, you are talking about minor advances in WRs. It would be totally different in open water, as time wouldn't factor in as much as "the race". But in swimming, even in the pool, they do also draft.<br /><br />There is a sport in which you actually have teammates whose sole purpose is to propel their marked leader to the line ahead of all the others, making it easier for that person to ride the entire race: cycling. If running were more like cycling, you would possibly see teams of Kenyans take on teams of Ethiopians and Moroccans and maybe a few Americans. But that's running for country, not for a trade team (often at Cycling World Championships you see teams split because while they all are from a certain country, they generally race for different trade teams). They also aren't going for WRs because there aren't any - except in the velodrome.<br /><br />So running stands alone, and while I can get behind the points that argue that teammates could effectively pace others, they aren't. You will not see Galen Rupp go out there and set the pace for Bernard Lagat. BG is also correct in that World Records in road events are still a pretty new thing. Maybe they just shouldn't consider them. Unless you run a marathon on a track or something, don't have a record for it.RMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01079220291482067777noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7465956249798874262.post-11621135262701659442011-09-28T18:02:30.414-04:002011-09-28T18:02:30.414-04:00By its very nature, competition means using all SA...By its very nature, competition means using all SAFE resources to set oneself up for success- whether that be eating right, sleeping adequately, hydrating, having lightweight shoes, or hiring a male pacer. I'm a little put off by the I.A.A.F.'s decision because it's stance toward the title "world record" misleadingly lumps the safely executed and well-intentioned effort to hire a male pacer right in with the unsafe and ill-intentioned ease of doping with dangerous performance enhancing substances. If female elite athletes are going to push limits to advance their sport, I'd rather they did it with testosterone in front of them, then inside of them! <br /><br />(***Of course when it comes to swimming, only female swimmers should have to swim naked. No one wants to know what other parts of Michael Phelps are webbed***)c-radhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12832582820146545955noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7465956249798874262.post-60000087332322333622011-09-28T16:40:45.429-04:002011-09-28T16:40:45.429-04:00I agree with Ben. Even if pacers sometimes make a ...I agree with Ben. Even if pacers sometimes make a race less competitive, it is impossible to eliminate them entirely from competition. If nothing else, guys from the same country or team will work together, which is usually a type of pacing. So, it's better to have it out in the open than in under-the-table deals.<br /><br />On the other hand, any "pacers" should be eligible to compete in the race itself. This may not be true of everyone, but I know that running behind someone for the entire race drops my 5k time something like 10-20 seconds, and so comparing the man-paced womens times to women-only times is generally not fair. Also, "faster" men don't pace men (should we allow bike pacers?), which makes man-paced womens races and mens races unequal.<br /><br />While I agree that retro-actively taking away the world record and american record seems unfortunate, those times are still world and american "bests". If I'm not mistaken, it wasn't too long ago that the IAAF didn't even have a "world record" for road races. They were all "world bests" anyway.<br /><br />In the end, though, we're just talking about lists, and every list needs to have well-defined, standardized rules for a performance to appear. Downhill or point-to-point courses obviously can't be allowed without some sort of denotation. And, man-paced womens times shouldn't be included on the main list for two reasons: (1) no other world record is possible while being paced by people ineligible for that record, making road races even more different from track races, and (2) elite women now race almost exclusively without men, so most future times will not be man-paced. <br /><br />In the long run, this is definitely the right decision, but unfortunately for Paula and Deena, it's a bad time to be a record holder.<br /><br />This discussion reminds me of the high-tech swimsuit issue from the last few years in elite swimming. THAT is a tricky question when compared to this one. I think all swimmers should have to swim naked.BGhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05719622819591861648noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7465956249798874262.post-81702230799791981912011-09-28T14:54:20.297-04:002011-09-28T14:54:20.297-04:00I think pacers should be allowed for world records...I think pacers should be allowed for world records. If there was a race where all the top guys happened to be in approximately the same shape the effect would be about the same as having pacers. How do you decide whether someone has been "paced" vs. "competed" against. What happens if somebody turns their ankle and drops out with a mile to go - was the other guy "paced"? The grandaddy of all world records - the first sub-4 minute mile had pacers. Do we go back and say that Roger Bannister wasn't actually the first man to break 4 minutes in the mile? <br /><br />As for the male/female issue - I agree with Meg - male pacers shouldn't have any advantage over female pacers other than there are more of them that can run that pace.<br /><br />I know this seems to go against my "Boston shouldn't be a world record" argument. But, if it's good enough for Roger Bannister it's good enough for me. And yes Ryan, I was there when he broke the record.Benhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13889522815625481107noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7465956249798874262.post-33093255682363773462011-09-28T14:28:21.877-04:002011-09-28T14:28:21.877-04:00I don't see how a female being paced by a fast...I don't see how a female being paced by a faster male would have any greater advantage than a male being paced by a faster male. Either allow it for both or don't allow it for either.Meghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00119414493181289124noreply@blogger.com